Yet another "spec" exhaust problem

#41

Guys -

Ease up on it a little. Please keep in mind how small the series was when Carter, et al put the spec exhaust rule in place. It closed a massive rules gap. It was an imperfect fix, but given the unit volume that could have been expected at the time, Paul gave a fair deal.

I’m sure someone (cough Tower *cough) could set up a website in the time it takes me to type this post, but Paul ain’t shipping Bimmerworld-type volumes.

Yes, fitment is a little wonky. Yes, you could build it cheaper yourself.

But yes, having a spec exhaust was and is appealing to many in a spec series. And yes, for a few dozen units a year, it’s a fair deal.

Besides, if we got rid of all the Luddites who don’t have websites, we’d have to get rid of Patton. And he’s pretty entertaining.

#42

[quote=“Steve D” post=65302]Guys -

Ease up on it a little. Please keep in mind how small the series was when Carter, et al put the spec exhaust rule in place. It closed a massive rules gap. It was an imperfect fix, but given the unit volume that could have been expected at the time, Paul gave a fair deal.

I’m sure someone (cough Tower *cough) could set up a website in the time it takes me to type this post, but Paul ain’t shipping Bimmerworld-type volumes.

Yes, fitment is a little wonky. Yes, you could build it cheaper yourself.

But yes, having a spec exhaust was and is appealing to many in a spec series. And yes, for a few dozen units a year, it’s a fair deal.

Besides, if we got rid of all the Luddites who don’t have websites, we’d have to get rid of Patton. And he’s pretty entertaining.[/quote]
+1. Paul’s a good guy. It’s an imperfect world. You want help with an exhaust issue, talk to your regional director, talk to Carter, or even send me an email. I talk to Paul about stuff every couple of months.

#43

Since I last posted on this thread we have built a second SE30. Needless to say that was a serious pain in the rear. So 2 for 2 it was an unpleasant experience.

Now after a year of racing my exhaust is fairly beaten up and likely a new exhaust is in the cards for late 2012/2013. I totally dread having to deal with this again. Everything else in this series is so easy to source, however, this one aspect is like a black hole.

I’m sure Paul works hard to satisfy all the requests, however, it’s just not scalable.

SE30 directors please listen the to racers and allow for the ability to not more than a single supplier.

My $0.02.

#44

I have had a problem every time with the Spec Exhaust. Ordering problem. Fit problem. re-ordering problem.

I have several parts in my garage. brand new that finally arrived after many, many weeks and did not fit. I had my muffler guy try to make them fit. He each time said, “look I can use the same exact tubing and bend it to look just like this but will actually fit.” So that is what I have had to do.

So each time the process has taken way too long, cost way too much and been very frustrating. This is truly ridiculous that the series is held hostage. So as acknowledged above by Ranger, the demand is different now, so a new supply process should be put in place. Done end of story.

Either simply spec what we need and we supply it ourselves,… or Paul returns calls and e-mails within 24hrs. and sends out the product with in two days. Many of us our business men and know what it takes to produce results that are acceptable to 97% of people. This is one of the simplest parts on the car. Friends matter in life, but I have friends I really like to have beers with, but I am not going to count on them for stuff.

Our tires are spec but at least we have a choice in suppliers.

#45

Paul is a good guy and a good mechanic. Paul is not a business man.

I talked with Carter and Paul when the first problems came up. I tried to help Paul, but he didn’t think he needed it.

The suggestion I have. is let paul still build them and sell them only to a Big parts supplier, like Bimmerworld, Turner, or even DriveGear.

Let the business men handle all the order taking a shipping.

#46

My local exhaust shop that I’ve used before could probably make and install a spec system for under 200$ and have it done in 2 hours. It also wouldn’t hang to low. I spent a night pounding on it and it cost me 240. I had the typical contact problems and I couldn’t seat the joints completely because it was all to short to line up the back with the factory hangers. Making an exhaust rule would be simple. Just spec the diameter and where the y and muffler need to be. I would prefer a baffled muffler but that’s a change and not a big issue for me.

#47

Criticizing someone in a public forum is bad form. If you have a bitch, take it up with your regional director. If you want to submit a rule change, write it up with great care and submit it in the Fall.

There’s a couple people on this Earth that have completely punked me. I resent what they did to an extent that it’s not safe to be near them. But that doesn’t mean it’s ok to criticize them in public. Especially when they aren’t in the forum to defend themselves.

We can address the weaknesses of the current rule w/o beating up on Paul. I have personal knowledge of him, thru no fault of his own, getting stuck in between car builders and drivers that were in a pissing match and Paul taking the heat for it. Dealing with us is no bed of roses.

If someone wrote up a strawman for an exhaust rule change that was simple and enforceable, made a good arguement for it, and was able to show that the community supported his rule change, there’s no reason why we couldn’t get it accepted. We, the guys in this forum, ok and a few chicks, are SpecE30. Carter and the regional directors might not see eye-to-eye with our every whim, but they really are trying to make us happy.

#48

Paul Poore may be a person but he is also a business. If he doesn’t want his name attacked then he should have a different name for his business. I’m sure he is a great guy but I haven’t met him and probably never will.

Defining the spec would be simple. The exhaust must collect into one pipe at x inches past the bottom kink. The pipe must be x diameter. The muffler must terminate at x inches before the bumper.

#49

Gentlemen,

This whole thing is ridiculous. You need to contact your NASA regional officials and Carter and demand a spec for the exhaust and eliminate the single source provider. I own a company that does spec parts for Miata’s and I built myself a SE30 and had the exact same issues most people are complaining about. I don’t want to break any advertising rules, so I won’t mention the name, but lets just say its a company that does Mita’s and it has the word Cage in it as well… As a designer, manufacturer and distributor of race parts I did not accept the excuses and mis-information I was being given by Mr Poore and went directly to NASA for a resolution. They are aware of the issue and are willing to make a change but they need to hear from more people before they do this.

The facts are the product is not consistent, he does not return calls or e-mails in a timely manner and as a required part to race in the series there needs to be a 2nd supplier. Single source suppliers are never a good thing in a growing class.

This is a very simple fix. The exhaust needs to be digitized and put into the rule book as the “Spec” design. I offered to pay for the digitizing on my own dime to help fix the problem and give it to NASA free of charge. That offer still stands. I also offered to give Paul the drawing so I am not trying to cut him out of any deals. Once the exhaust design is done you can take the design to any number of places in the country to have the exhaust made. Your local Midas would be able to do it, but they don’t typically have mandrel benders so it wouldn’t be the best, but it could be done. With a spec design, I am sure a number of existing SpecE30 parts suppliers would start building them to provide as a service to their new and existing customers, thus giving the consumer choices of who they wish to purchase their required equipment from.

Fixing the fitment issues and digitizing the exhaust would take a couple weeks tops and that’s only because I live in the Northwest and we mostly run something called Pro3 instead of SE30 and their exhaust rules are un-restricted.

I honestly don’t care how nice a guy he is. He has had ample opportunity to fix it and he has not. When you invest the type of money we invest in building these cars you can not be held hostage for a required part by a single source who has proven he can not handle it. Some of you will be mad at me for expressing this, but is is simply factual information… If that happens to be derogatory that is on Paul, not me. Sorry to any I have offended.

Sean Hedrick

#50

The discussion on this thread is enlightening, however it is serving no good purpose except to entertain those that are reading.

Period.

The Director and co-founder of Spec e30 does not frequent the message board. So, if you want you opinion to count, you’ll have to send the correspondence to Carter Hunt.

The other area directors will be watching to wade in on the subject.

Robert Patton (co-SE director)

#51

[quote=“Patton” post=65329]The Director and co-founder of Spec e30 does not frequent the message board. So, if you want you opinion to count, you’ll have to send the correspondence to Carter Hunt.

The other area directors will be watching to wade in on the subject.

Robert Patton (co-SE director)[/quote]

Thanks, Robert. I’ve tried contacting Paul on and off since May and heard nothing. I just sent an email through the site here to Carter and got this "PHPMAILER_RECIPIENTS_FAILEDSeriesAdmin@SpecE30.com"

So how can I contact him? My car came with an aftermarket exhaust and that is the only thing holding up my class legality. I would like to double the size of the field in Texas :slight_smile: but can’t if I’m not legal.

#52

[quote=“ffej” post=67282][quote=“Patton” post=65329]The Director and co-founder of Spec e30 does not frequent the message board. So, if you want you opinion to count, you’ll have to send the correspondence to Carter Hunt.

The other area directors will be watching to wade in on the subject.

Robert Patton (co-SE director)[/quote]

Thanks, Robert. I’ve tried contacting Paul on and off since May and heard nothing. I just sent an email through the site here to Carter and got this "PHPMAILER_RECIPIENTS_FAILEDSeriesAdmin@SpecE30.com"

So how can I contact him? My car came with an aftermarket exhaust and that is the only thing holding up my class legality. I would like to double the size of the field in Texas :slight_smile: but can’t if I’m not legal.[/quote]

Walter at Valley Motorwerks in Sacramento, CA has a few in stock. Give him a buzz and let him know I recommended you to him. www.vmwerks.com

Dan

#53

Jeff,
My apologies… I;ve been travleing ALOT and have been out of the office out of touch most of that time. I do have an exhaust in stock…

Walter

#54

[quote=“vmwerks” post=67284]Jeff,
My apologies… I;ve been travleing ALOT and have been out of the office out of touch most of that time. I do have an exhaust in stock…

Walter[/quote]

When should I call you? :slight_smile:

#55

I’m back for at least a month or two… Monday will be perfect

#56

[quote=“ffej” post=67282][quote=“Patton” post=65329]The Director and co-founder of Spec e30 does not frequent the message board. So, if you want you opinion to count, you’ll have to send the correspondence to Carter Hunt.

The other area directors will be watching to wade in on the subject.

Robert Patton (co-SE director)[/quote]

Thanks, Robert. I’ve tried contacting Paul on and off since May and heard nothing. I just sent an email through the site here to Carter and got this "PHPMAILER_RECIPIENTS_FAILEDSeriesAdmin@SpecE30.com"

So how can I contact him? My car came with an aftermarket exhaust and that is the only thing holding up my class legality. I would like to double the size of the field in Texas :slight_smile: but can’t if I’m not legal.[/quote]

To contact Carter try CHunt (at) Chemstation (dot) net

#57

I’ve seen all the other write ups…but my experience was totally painless. I called the number listed in the contact section of this website. He told me he was on the road and would call me back…he did in fact, call me back when he said he would, I gave him my credit card number, and my exhaust arrived in Houston TX a short time later. He even took the time and answered some questions I had that were not related to the exhaust.

#58

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVc1LLZGjaY&feature=youtu.be

#59

Not to jump in a thread weeks later, but I would like to say a few words on the subject.

Our shop has been actively involved in the SoCal SpecE30 series and we have seen a few of these Spec exhaust systems. One racer who had purchased the system recently went through the same exhausting process to attain the system.

He was further insulted when there was a summit racing receipt for the $20 glass pack.

I agree with all those who contend that the system should be spec’d out and opened to any vendor. We have the choice to purchase Bilstein stuts, HR Race Springs, Sway Bars, etc. from any variety of vendors. So why be constrained to one vendor when it comes to the exhaust system.

I certainly get the concept of the spec exhaust. Its uniformity and it honestly sounds good as a pack of Spec E30’s rip by all sounding off in unison.

Personally I would love to see the Spec E30 exhaust spec’d and open to multiple vendors. Prices and quality could vary, but in the end, all cars would have a uniform Spec’d exhaust system. Its not difficult.

Cheers,
Robert
E30 Motor Werks

#60

Bilstein is a manufacturer. Not a vender. I am pretty sure no one else manufactures Bilstein shocks but Bilstein. Same for H&R. Paul is manufacturing the system from parts sourced from other manufacturers. This is not a perfect distribution system but it has improved some and Carter is keeping on top of it.