East Coast Nationals '09

#1

Most of you have probably heard about the GTS east coast nationals in Kentucky for '09 and all the controversy with nasa.

944 cup just announced a e.c. nationals event at vir next year!

[quote]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Our plans are shaping up to have an event at VIR in October that would replace the NASA Nationals.
The event: Chase for the 944 Cup. 3 day event with practice day, qualifying, and races on Saturday and Sunday. Date is October 9-10-11, 2009.

The format may be a 3 Part Championship with a 30 point max scoring system. Any NASA licensed driver with a legal Cup or Super Cup car can compete, no minimum number of races required.

Part 1: drivers get 1 point for every Cup regional race scored during the year, for a max of 10 points. This rewards the regular series drivers for their appreciated support during the year. Part 2: For the Saturday race, max 10 points earned with 1st getting 10 points, 2nd place getting 9, etc. . Puts equal value on the Saturday race. Part 3: Score the same as Saturday race with a max of 10 points. Champ for the Chase is driver with most points adding all 3 Parts and will walk away with the 944 Cup perpetual National trophy. Ties will be decided by finishing position in Sunday’s race.

Not certain if this will be Full Course or North. Likely Full.

DD[/quote]

Apparently we have something like this in the mix as well.
Who’s interested?

#2

Slippery slope.

Prior to Carter Hunt and Mike Mills the BMWCCA guys discussed an E30 race series.It did not happen.They did develop a Mini spec series and it was/is a flop. Who has the money to spend on the Mini race “shell”?

Mills and Hunt then developed the rules for Spec E30. NASA provided the race group to allow us to compete.(Yep, they brought us to the dance.)

Mills has since moved to be the BMWCCA rules czar. This leaves Hunt as the Spec E30 guy.He has the final say on the world of Spec E30.

So, obviously the final decision is Hunt’s. I can envision a split, just like you’ve noted with Barr and his GTS series.And it looks like the 944 guys want to take their ball and play back east too.

I’m not for a split,thank you very much. The NASA folks have been very good to all of us racers.

That is not to say that we can’t have a good 'ole back east get together. Just pick an existing race weekend and have everyone invade VIR, Mid Ohio or Road Atlanta. Just don’t parade it aroud as a national type event and don’t do it in September to compete with the real NASA Nationals.Did we have the western boys having their own nationals?

That’s my 02 cents.

regards, Robert Patton

#3

I agreed until 944 announced this.
I dont want anything bad to happen to carter or se30 but if enough racers buy into this, what can nasa do?

From what I understand Barr resigned becauce NASA acted outside its authority by taking over gts, not getting rid of it. I will be very interested to see what they do with 944…

#4

Lets not create conflict where it’s not necessary. Everything turns to rat$hit when folks start getting pissed at each other. If the East Coast SpecE30 guys want a closer big event, there’s surely ways of doing it that doesn’t alienate NASA. For example, hold it in December so it’s well after NASA Nationals and don’t talk it up as a competitor to NASA Nationals. We could call it the “I love NASA Fun Run”.

Or we just all agree to call a specific NASA race the “Regionals”. Like we pick a race at VIR or something, and the only difference is that the SpecE30 field is a little bigger then normal.

Any kid can get in a fistfight. It’s getting what you want while everyone stays friends that takes some cleverness and adult behavior.

#5

allenr wrote:

[quote]I agreed until 944 announced this.
I dont want anything bad to happen to carter or se30 but if enough racers buy into this, what can nasa do?

Why would Hunt put NASA in a position to have to act/react?

Should anything happen on the east, keep it low key. Save your money to go to Miller in 2010. It would be fun to meet and race with some of the west coast personalities that we’ve all read about.

Regards, Robert Patton

#6

Ok we might have to agree to disagree here.

Cleverness is fine and dandy but I’ll be honest- I like the statement these guys are making. We could agree to have a lot of guys show up to a regional race but why should we try to avoid standing up for ourselves? I like nasa and I dont want to create an unneccessary conflict but I think those national guys have to be reminded who pays their salaries.

And I am getting frustrated about this utah talk :angry: . The reason we can complian is because there are a heckofalot more racers on the east coast than the west coast. No offense to the west coast guys (I would love to go out and race with you guys) but they are just too few of you to justify 90% of the racers driving cross country and spending half of their season budget and time off to go all the way out there. I think the west coasters understand my point (I didnt notice many at ohio last month).

We want the excitement of a national race without striking off the rest of our season so why shouldnt we get it? Because it would ruin nasa’s nationals sponsorships? Thats not a very good reason for your average racer.

I dont want to offend anyone but this is the truth and I think most would agree with me whether they would say so or not.

In the end I know carter will make the decision that is best for us.

ps-

Agism is a crime :stuck_out_tongue:

#7

allenr wrote:

PBOC tried it… History repeats itself? I’d rather not run with Outlaws and Radicals just to pay for track time.

#8

allenr wrote:

Just my opinion, but I think we need NASA a lot more than NASA needs Spec E30.

Look at the way (god forbid) SCCA does it with their “triple crown” of regional championships, June Sprints at Road America and the Runoffs. All the events have a certain level of prestige, but they are not battling for the “championship” title. People want to attend all 3, but the draw is strongest when the Runoffs are at a good track convenient to a bunch of racers. (Unlike this year with 28 spec miatas in Topeka - about half the size of the field at the NASA Champs.)

If you chip away at the status of the NASA Championships, that event will be weaker when it returns to the east coast in 3 years.

Why not plan a mid-year east coast super-regional event like the ARRC in SCCA? Top 15% (?) of finishers receive a travel stipend or comped entry fees or whatever to encourage them to go to Utah?

If you really want high-level regional competition (and to benefit the class long-term), work toward getting SCCA to recognize the SE30 ruleset as an IT class and attend the ARRC. Why reinvent the freaking wheel?

Steve D.

#9

I sure dont want a split either. If it comes to that I think the event should be bagged. I’m sure nasa and 944 worked something out. I dont think they would have risked being expelled from nasa.

#10

I’m totally against an east coast national for a number of reasons that others have already highlighted. It is fine to highlight one event out east and earmark it as a big event to get together, kinda like IFU2 this year but do not call it nationals or anything like that. We are not in a situation where there are no west coast racers at all and we should also respect that NASA has provided us a place to play. Spec E30 wouldn’t likely exist without the help of NASA. I want to see Spec E30 grow Nationwide and we shouldn’t shut out the Cali boys especially since they are probably the fastest growing region right now. If it means I only go to Utah once and then do Nationals every couple of years then thats the way it is. I can still race in my region or travel to the Mid Atlantic and South East.

#11

Mark was effectively dismissed - he told NASA Nat he didn’t want to work with them anymore and they took that as a resignation.

944 Spec will have more than enough cars at Miller to make up for the lack of 944Cup cars - the 944 Spec Nat director is here in Denver.

Not that I have a vote, but I am dead set against breaking up SpecE30 nationals.
bruce

allenr wrote:

[quote]I agreed until 944 announced this.
I dont want anything bad to happen to carter or se30 but if enough racers buy into this, what can nasa do?

From what I understand Barr resigned becauce NASA acted outside its authority by taking over gts, not getting rid of it. I will be very interested to see what they do with 944…[/quote]

#12

Spot on Simon.

#13

the GTS and 944 Cup guys are so much as saying - we’ll just ignore the FACT that our series would be no where near the size that it is in the east without NASA, and now that NASA is trying to truly nationalize the organization by building up interest in the westerly regions, we’re going to blow them off and materially hurt the business.

These are symbiotic relationships. NASA has to persist as a business. This is just a hobby for the racers. If we don’t keep NASA growing, pretty soon we won’t have a fun place to play.
bruce

allenr wrote:

[quote]Ok we might have to agree to disagree here.

Cleverness is fine and dandy but I’ll be honest- I like the statement these guys are making. [/quote]

#14

Wow. I didnt realize there would be such resistance to this!
Good thing we got this out before it gets planned…

#15

Interesting thread and the subject and some history

http://roadraceautox.com/showthread.php?t=19952

#16

I’ve raced a lot of different places with different sanctioning bodies, I wouldn’t do anything to jepordize Spec e30’s relationship with NASA and especially Pantas…go race somewhere else and see how good we got it in NASA SE. I wish I could support the Nationals in Utah by going out there…who knows, maybe I can borrow or rent or even drive the red car out next year…

Al

#17

I must have been under a rock somewhere, because I didn’t know anything about the 944 and GTS drama.

However, to echo several of the points already made: SpecE30 was just words in a rulebook until Carter/Mike and NASA got together and made it real. We’d be nowhere without NASA and they wouldn’t be as successful w/o us. Nothing wrong with that. SpecE30 and NASA are partners, not competitors. Pantas and Cobetto both race SpecE30, which tells me they understand the value and the fun of the series.

Buying a chunk of track time somewhere next fall and calling it the SpecE30 nationals is neither necessary nor the right thing to do. As Patton and I think Simon suggested, just pick an event next year, at one of the big-3 tracks and issue a throwdown challenge to have a big ol’ SpecE30 race group, while not pissing in our own cornflakes by declaring it a ‘championship’ Just keep it cool.

All anybody is really after is bragging rights anyway, so an unofficial SpecE30 y’all come race would be great for everybody.

I gather that GTS has no participation in the west, and maybe that’s true for 944 as well, so I can see why they wouldn’t be much interested in going to Utah to race themselves, but if in the end they lose the support they’ve gained from NASA over the years, it’ll be a pretty hollow and stupid statement to make.

My .02 anyway.

#18

I really think NASA is shooting themselves in the foot. Moving the nats away from 90% of their customer base is just stupid. I understand them wanting to grow the western section of the country, but to alienate your customer base by telling them they don’t matter: the western section of the country is more important is just WRONG!!! We will see how this plays out. Remember, NASA is a for profit organization…we, the customers can effect changes with our check books. Chuck

#19

currently, about 4-5% of the NASA membership goes to Nationals. The bulk of the membership just races/drives regionally. I bet in a few years we will see some sort of East and West Nationals since this is amateur racing and people don’t have huge tow budgets.
bruce

cwbaader wrote:

#20

cwbaader wrote:

I keep seeing this 90% figure quoted as gospel.

Is that really the number? I have a feeling that if you draw a 15-hour tow circle around MidOhio you get less than 90% of the racing population and if you draw the same circle around Miller you get way more than 10% of the racing population…

If that 90% really is the number, NASA made a mistake. If it is not, they made the right choice to move nationals around.

If I did it right, below is a map of the US by income. Looks like there’s a good swath of upper-middle income in California, Nevada, Utah, Colorado.

Now look at the states near Ohio to the south. The average household income ranges are:
$43 & under - tan
$44-49 - light (lime) green
$50-57 - medium green
$58 up - dark green

Assuming that disposable income and racing are correlated, maybe those NASA execs aren’t so dumb after all…

Steve D.