HPDE advice needed...

#1

Hey guys & gals…

I’m currently an HPDE group 2 student with 9 track days completed, and another 23 scheduled for this year. My aim is to mix it up with y’all in SE30.

I know that HPDE’s are not a racing event, and I also know that the “HPDE line” is much different than the “racing line”. With this in mind, how do I go about learning the racing line?

The two tracks that I frequent are Summit Point, and VIR. Is it acceptable to just ask my instructor to teach me the racing line when I’m doing a HPDE, or is it discouraged due to the possibility that other students would get confused by me doing a different line than they are being taught?

I would gladly listen to any advise that you may have regarding your craft.

Regards,
Fritz

#2

Just do lots of DE’s until the school line and car control are automatic. In a race, your brain is focused on predicting what the other guys are going to do, and planning for what you’re going to do. So automatic reflexes are in charge of driving your car. You need to have enough track experience that your automatic reflexes are up to the job.

And I have all the answers…I’m pretty sure that I am currently bringing up the rear of the SpecE30 pack.

I’d argue (and it is an issue of much arguement), that “the racing line” is wherever another car…isn’t. There’s issues of making your car “wide”, and also taking turns such that it’s harder for someone else to execute a pass, but those are tactics, not lines.

#3

NOT_MPOWER wrote:

[quote]Hey guys & gals…

I’m currently an HPDE group 2 student with 9 track days completed, and another 23 scheduled for this year. My aim is to mix it up with y’all in SE30.
[/quote]

Excellent!

NOT_MPOWER wrote:

I wouldn’t worry too much about it, the lines will be very similiar. The biggest difference will be that the HPDE line will be safer in that in general the apexes will be a little later to leave a margin for error if you do happen to miss the apex early. Also in racing you might adjust your line to not leave an open passing opportunity and you have to be able to run 2,3 or even 4 wide if necessary, which means driving a totally different line all together.

NOT_MPOWER wrote:

I can’t speak for NASA as I have never instructed with them. Personally, I usually always teach the “fastest” line, but it depends on my comfort level with the student.

NOT_MPOWER wrote:

[quote]
I would gladly listen to any advise that you may have regarding your craft.

Regards,
Fritz[/quote]

#4

You can also make it know that you are doing DE’s with the goal of racing. You can request a racer as an instructor and they can work with you based on how you perform on track.

See you out there soon!

#5

With group 3 passing being allowed anywhere on track you will start to learn different lines through the corners.

#6

All good advice. Request a racing Instructor and make your desire to race known to the Chief Instructor and the class liaison, in this case, Carter Hunt. Also, come hang out in the Spec E30 paddock area.

#7

Thanks, everyone, for the good advise! I’ve been watching a lot of SE30 races on in-car vid & know that I am definately NOT ready to go 3 or 4 wide yet! (although looks like a blast). I still have a long way to go in developing my situational awareness.

I’ve had mostly “excellent” marks from my instructors to date (where’s the emoticon for swollen head?), but plan on staying in group 2 for the season to take advantage of having an instructor.

I understand the principal of the racing line being where other cars are not, as I’ve had some pretty good point by’s that required taking a tight line around a corner & driving off line to ensure adequate distance between me & the vehicle I overtook, or going wide to allow a passing vehicle room to complete their pass. In each of those two scenarios the pass was completed just at the end of the strait, which is cutting it close for HPDE rules, but a great learning experience as well.

The other question I have (which may be for the registrar), is… When in group 3, I know that I can request an instructor, but is there an additional charge?

I’ll see y’all at VIR on the 22-24 of Feb, & again in March! :woohoo: Thanks again!

#8

Stay in Gr2 as long as you feel comfortable. The instruction is worth it. Every instructor I had taught me something a little different.

There is a theory that you can request an instructor for Gr3, but the last HPDE I did I tried this and was pretty much told they aren’t supplied as they are in short enough supply for 1 & 2. :frowning: I asked one of the SE30 guys to ride with me but the schedule didn’t really allow that. I feel I could still use some coaching but I’m probably a bit too fast/aggressive now for Gr2 and also don’t want to take up those valuable spots for those still climbing the ladder. Not sure what the solution is.

#9

Thanks, Dwight.

Is there a particular instructor that you would recommend?

#10

NOT_MPOWER wrote:

No additional charge. Just email me in advance of the event with the request and I will pass it along.

#11

:woohoo: YEAH BUDDY!

Thanks!

#12

I’m in roughly the same boat as you, though my schools have been spaced out over a few years. :stuck_out_tongue:

One thing that was a real eye opener was the bmwcca race school. I did it in conjunction with O’fest last year, but they are doing quite a few of them now. Basically, it’s all dedicated to leaving HDPE’s and getting into door to door racing. Baby steps you might call it.

Over 2 days they go from open laps to open passing, side by side laps, rolling starts and finally short (albeit pretty tame) races. Moving from a structured point by system to passing in corners is a real eye opener and really improves situational awareness. Going side by side makes you appreciate how much room there is out there, and by the end of the weekend you really start to appreciate lines other than the “school line” and that as a previous poster said, the racing line is wherever someone isn’t.

I was prolly the slowest guy out there in my not-quite-spec e30 with street tires. I was also one of the few non-instructors, and I had a blast, 10x more fun than a DE. More importantly, I learned a lot. I highly recommend it, though it will make you appreciate that the hook to go racing actually CAN go deeper.

http://www.bmwccaclubracing.com/events/events.aspx

#13

The last few track events I attended the instructor had me drive off line after several sessions. I was picturing a car to the inside or outside of my car. I’m sure it look odd from the cars behind me, but it was a different feeling than following the same line lap after lap.

-Scott

#14

Wow, lots of great advise. I think I’ll ask my instructor to let me do off-line laps next time out (March/VIR) so I too can gain that perspective. Thanks for all the replies! I don’t think the hook could go in any further as now I’m looking at cars on the street & evaluating their “track potential”, or imagining your neighbor’s Mercedes with a cage in it!

#15

ddavidv wrote:

[quote]Stay in Gr2 as long as you feel comfortable. The instruction is worth it. Every instructor I had taught me something a little different.

There is a theory that you can request an instructor for Gr3, but the last HPDE I did I tried this and was pretty much told they aren’t supplied as they are in short enough supply for 1 & 2. :frowning: I asked one of the SE30 guys to ride with me but the schedule didn’t really allow that. I feel I could still use some coaching but I’m probably a bit too fast/aggressive now for Gr2 and also don’t want to take up those valuable spots for those still climbing the ladder. Not sure what the solution is.[/quote]Whose event was this?

#16

Maybe try some non NASA events?

I run w/ THSCC a lot since i know a lot of the folks and run TTs w/ them. They have 3 levels of instructed HPDE and the 4th is basically the instructor session. You often go solo in the 3rd level, but at least an instructor is there and assigned to you at the start of the event if you want him. There may not be quite as many racers in the club as NASA, but i’ve had good luck and have had spece30 drivers my last three events. We’ve done plenty of things like ‘stay off line the whole course’, ‘pretend its raining’, ‘ah, oil on the left of turn 1!’ sort of stuff. It’s definitely within reason to ask for such if you want to learn it. Youre the customer :stuck_out_tongue:

#17

nasaregistrar wrote:

[quote]
Whose event was this?[/quote]
NASA, my friend. VIR last year, I think the Feb event but I’m not 100% sure on that.

#18

ddavidv wrote:

[quote]nasaregistrar wrote:

[quote]
Whose event was this?[/quote]
NASA, my friend. VIR last year, I think the Feb event but I’m not 100% sure on that.[/quote]well…???

Ping me in advance and I will try to set something up if you want to. We don’t get a lot of requests for a ride along in G3 but it does happen. usually someone from a different part of the country with a lot of experience but new to the track…That kind of situation. Trying to set this up once at the track is a little harder.

#19

nm.

#20

Sean, I will do that. I do not believe once you achieve Gr3 status you know everything, especially when you are looking towards competing. I’d like an instructor for some additional coaching, if even just for one day. This is my first rwd track car (!) and I may need some corrections to my style. FWIW, at the time I had requested the instructor through Laura Cobetto, who stated getting one in Gr3 was not really possible.
:huh: