Merge of SpecE30 and Spec3

#1

Wow, big news.

Change is hard. Some have talked about e30 donor cars becoming harder to get for years, but maybe the issue is more significant in some parts of the country then others. IMO it’s not that hard in the SE to find an e30 donor, but of course it will be eventually. Therefore leaving the e30 behind isn’t a matter if “if” but “when”.

It’s hard to accept the fact that the knowledge and experience gained with blood and tears will become useless. I’ll have to do it all over again with a car I don’t know from a hole in the ground. I have to just keep telling myself that the change was inevitable so no sense me blubbering like a school girl. Heck, as long as we can get the cars to reasonable parity, there’s no reason why I can’t keep racing the E30 until I’m divorced and penniless. See? Always a silver lining.

#2

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Spec is the best thing going in this class. Adding Spec3 cars makes it GTS-ish.

Why screw that up just because donors cost $2k instead of $1k? That math hasn’t hurt Spec Miata.

#3

SE30 is as strong as ever. Why mess up a good thing? Cars and parts are not that tough to find they just are not as cheap. maybe about as much as a e36:laugh:

#4

This is horrible idea.

I understand that some day SE30 will die out. It is just not happening yet. How can this announcement be made when parts of the country see the series is still growing? In other parts it may not but growing, but it is maintaining. In SoCal we have seen a average growth of five cars a season over the last 4 years. Announcing this will drive away drivers that were planning to join us.

Adding Spec 3 to SE30 makes the class no longer a “spec” class. The idea will never work. For years the powers that be have said the goal of SE30 is not speed, but is close racing from relatively eqaul cars, at a reasonable cost. Now they want to make the cars faster, add cars that are different, at a added cost to all of us.

E30’s are becoming a little more expensive. They are still relatively cheap. It could take me less than a minute to find a donor car locally, for less than $1000. Even if a donor car cost $2000, it is still cheap. I can go to the local pick-a-part and find at least 4 cars to pull parts from. None of these points are true for the e36.

If the class is to die out, let the racers migrate over to Spec 3 on there own. Do not kill the class while it is still growing. If it is a better idea to race Spec 3, racers will figure it out. Making one class of two will ruin both.

As Steve D said…
Worst. Idea. Ever.

#5

Obviously, the powers that be haven’t availed themselves of the opportunity to read endless bitching about parity on the old specmiata.com and now mazdaracers.com. They added the exposed headlight 1999-up cars years ago and they are now the de-facto spec car for national competition. A lot of people (who don’t make money selling/building cars) would love to put that genie back in the bottle.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana

#6

Agree or disagree, we still need to know what rule set is for 2014, we have less than 3 months till our first race here in NorCal…

OR

I guess mid-season rule changes are acceptable as they have been in the past!

#7

Spec3 Regulations now available at upper left under Main Menu.

#8

so are you assuming this is a done deal, know its a done deal, or just being proactive?

#9

Don’t know how the Spec 3 stuff was added, but it if any one knows I’d suggest they be removed. Way too earily to bring it here and tick-off existing e30 racers with it being “in your face.”

RP

#10

so are you assuming this is a done deal, know its a done deal, or just being proactive?[/quote]
Both I suppose.

My reading of Carter’s piece is that this is what is going to happen and now we’re going to work thru the details. I figured that if we’re going to be discussing trying to equalize the two cars, we need to be really familiar with their rules.

At what point does “their” rules become “our other” rules? So I created the link to make access to their rules easy.

Make no mistake, I have a dog in this. But now that I’m a co-director I’m trying to be restrain my bias and usual forum histrionics and behave more adult-like. Hard tho.

#11

so are you assuming this is a done deal, know its a done deal, or just being proactive?[/quote]
Make no mistake, I have a dog in this. But now that I’m a co-director I’m trying to be restrain my bias and usual forum histrionics and behave more adult-like. Hard tho.[/quote]

Come on R you can’t hold back now!

#12

[quote=“Patton” post=74878]Don’t know how the Spec 3 stuff was added, but it if any one knows I’d suggest they be removed. Way too earily to bring it here and tick-off existing e30 racers with it being “in your face.”

RP[/quote]
Ok, I removed it.

#13

so are you assuming this is a done deal, know its a done deal, or just being proactive?[/quote]
Make no mistake, I have a dog in this. But now that I’m a co-director I’m trying to be restrain my bias and usual forum histrionics and behave more adult-like. Hard tho.[/quote]

Come on R you can’t hold back now![/quote]
I’ve resolved to be kindler, gentler, and less irritating.

And to slow way down when there is trouble in front.

#14

It’s a little early to rush to judgement but i am inclined to frown on this idea. I don’t think there are a bunch of e30 guys saying “man these cars are hard to find. I wish I could race an e36 instead”. The parts stores are the same. The prices are the same. The cars are way different. I cant imagine how you could equalize the cars other than power/wieght which is covered in gts. That being said, i find myself racing alot of other classes anywhere but the SE for sheer lack of numbers. So if i have a great battle with a 944 or a Nissan, who’s to say of we added e36’s to our mix that the racing would be bad? Isn’t that why we are here? Interesting idea but implementation would be the key to success.

#15

To make the cars equal, you will have to drop the e30 weight drastically (probably 2600#), and run the e36 at something around 3100#. The e36 suspension is drastically better than the e30!!

#16

As someone who’s slowly building a SE30… this announcement is very disappointing. The #1 thing that draws me to the class is the parity of racing. And there will be no way to make the E30 and E36 completely even… it will always be track dependent.

The fear of e30 depletion is completely unwarranted. There’s tons of them still available. There were hundreds of thousands of 87-91 325’s manufacturered. We’re not going to run out any time soon. The only reason E30’s have gone up in price is because they’re trendy right now.

So, maybe I missed it… but when is this change proposed to take place? 3 years from now?

#17

Just some food for thought - look at B-spec. Spec series with multiple manufactures.

Not saying it has to be that way, but it never hurts to look at the future. The E30’s (atleast here in the PNW) are getting a little harder to find good, clean shells for under $1000. It can be done, but there is now a cottage industry of young twenty somethings who snatch these up, part 'em and then crush the shells. Trying to make a quick buck I guess. Just spend some time on R3VLimited, and almost daily you will see someone complaining about wrecking their “beloved” E30, or selling parts off one they picked up. hell, the entire site has basically turned in to a giant Craigslist ad anymore.

That is not to say that E36’s aren’t disappearing as well, any car that is cheap RWD is bound to be picked up by the young slideways crowd and end up eventually rolled down a hillside in Arizona…

I guess the point of this rambling is that, yes the series is increasing in popularity, but so will the base cost. With discussing like the huge long “Were’s the Outrage” topic beaten to death about the rise in contact, it’s going to be a concern everytime someone has to build a new car from the ground up. We can as a group decide to ignore it, and then end up like so many other spec series that have disappeared (the old Datsun Z spec series?) or perhaps keep the discussion open with an eye to the future.

At least the suggestion is staying in the same family, and it’s not like someone is saying we should start allowing Nissan Sentra’s to compete. Heck, I say we maybe invite a couple Spec 3 cars to run with a race or two, just to get an idea of the differences…

Or maybe we can just allow 318ti’s to be added; they are basically an E30 in the rear! :slight_smile:

#18

[quote=“djjerme” post=74889]Just some food for thought - look at B-spec. Spec series with multiple manufactures.
[/quote]
And even with manufacturer support, what is the highest number of entries in a B Spec race EXCLUDING races run as support series for pro events or the Runoffs?

There are many, many series one can run in mixed cars. Take away “Spec” and this becomes just another 5 car NASA class in a few years.

#19

Having just bought 2 e30’s to begin another build, this sucks. Let spec 3 join spec e46… Anyone want a '90 4dr 5sp and an '87 4dr 5sp cheap?

#20

Travis, I’ll take 'em.

Give this one time. With all of our bitchin…Well why the bitchin here?

What a waste of time. We are “preachin to the chior”. I suggest you voice your displeasure to NASA HQ and if that fails to get a response, discuss it with your local NASA regional direcetor. Beyond that, vote with your pocketbook, that will cause the most attention.

If I’m wrong, the combined series will blossum. DeVinney can chime in with the “combined” success of Miatas. Aren’t they still racing/turning-out in record numbers?

RP