Hoosiers?

#1

This announcement is two (large?) leaps away from affecting us, but it brings up an interesting question: Should we switch to Hoosiers?

SCCA names Hoosier as the spec tire for Spec Miata:
mazdaracers.com link

Granted, I don’t know if NASA will follow suit for Spec Miata. I haven’t been included in any discussions if there have been any. I believe that SM crossover between SCCA and NASA is healthy for both organizations but NASA has a long alliance with Toyo. Don’t know how all that will play out.

If NASA-SM goes purple, I think SE30 should as well. Tire availability will be better if we, like today, are all racing on the same skins. IMHO.

#2

[quote=“Steve D” post=59253]
If NASA-SM goes purple, I think SE30 should as well. Tire availability will be better if we, like today, are all racing on the same skins. IMHO.[/quote]

I agree. I’m tired of having to deal with the constantly changing performance of a shaved tire. I should be able to squeeze two NASA weekends out of set of Hoosiers

#3

If we do, get ready to spend a lot more money on tires… :S

#4

Its relative, you could shave down to 1/32 and race 1 race on a set of Toyo’s if you wanted. At least this way you know what performance you are getting right out of the box and you don’t have to run 5 sessions just to get the tire down to a fast depth.

#5

As we discussed in another thread, I think the Hoosier’s will cycle out faster. That said, if we can run the SM6 Hoosier, then the cost is effectively the same as a shaved RA1. I also really like Hoosier’s contingency program for tire payout. Good program.

If we got to run the SM6, I’d fine with the change personally…

#6

While waiting at Phil’s trailer to change (yet another) corded Toyo today, I got to listen in to a discussion between Phil and Chris Cobetto. Chris’ opinion was that NASA would likely/wisely follow the SCCA lead to keep parity between the two series in regards to SM. The Toyo ‘contract’ sounded like it was up next year (or after next year). American Iron has no desire to run Toyos again, apparently. Sounds like Toyo is on the chopping block. Chris was unimpressed with their contigency program as well and felt Hoosier could kick their butt in that department.

That all being wonderful speculation, I’m not sold on Hoosier simply because of the price. The last thing I want to do is spend more for tires that last only as long as the Toyos. The BFG has been suggested as an alternative also, and I think that is more price comparable (and at a minimum it would last longer). But, I am dissatisfied with Toyo ever since the R888 debacle so am willing to consider other options, certainly.

#7

[quote=“ddavidv” post=59320]
That all being wonderful speculation, I’m not sold on Hoosier simply because of the price.[/quote]

Shaved Toyo’s range anywhere from $150-165 shaved, plus shipping etc. The Hoosier SM6 is usually $165 and no shaving needed. So if we run the SM6, which is the Spec Miata Hoosier, the cost per tire is basically the same.

#8

[quote=“TrackRat” post=59329]So if we run the SM6, which is the Spec Miata Hoosier, the cost per tire is basically the same.[/quote]I think it is a safe assumption we would run the SM6 if we went with Hoosiers.

When I ran the SM6 before SM went to a spec tire, it was a great tire. Personally, I love the Toyos - especially R888s - because they are so sensitive to over-driving. It seems like they took a lot of care to get fast laps over the whole race. For that reason, I think Hoosiers will make the field tighter.

The trick we found with Hoosiers was that they liked one heat cycle then a few days or weeks rest. Once you treated them like that, they wouldn’t cycle out quickly. If you took a new set and slapped them on for a typical 5-6 session weekend, they would not be as fast for those sessions and would fall off quickly.

You need two sets. Run the new set in practice, then switch to the seasoned set for the rest of the weekend. The next time you need tires, cycle another set and use the now-seasoned ones.

As they say in Alabama, Wa-laa. :stuck_out_tongue:

#9

I’d be for a switch to the SM6. I would really like to try them first (or at least have someone in SE30 try them and report back to the group on longevity, grip, feel, etc. However, I don’t think they could be any worse, overall.

#10

If the Hoosiers are softer than RA1s, and therefore don’t last as long, it’s hard to understand how Hoosiers could be a step forward. If folks are hot to change tires, lets go to a tire that is both harder and cheaper. There’s been a couple examples of cheaper and harder suggested over the past year or two.

It’s entirely reasonable that the guys on the podium are interested in the Toyo or Hoosier dollars, but most of us aren’t getting on the podium. A tire that is $20 cheaper or will last one additional weekend will save us as a group a helova lot more money than podium payouts to a few.

#11

[quote=“Steve D” post=59332]
The trick we found with Hoosiers was that they liked one heat cycle then a few days or weeks rest. Once you treated them like that, they wouldn’t cycle out quickly. If you took a new set and slapped them on for a typical 5-6 session weekend, they would not be as fast for those sessions and would fall off quickly.[/quote]

We have found the same thing here as well and I have the same experience on the care/feeding…

#12

Never mind.

NASA Spec Miata 2012 tire decision

#13

[quote=“Steve D” post=59336]Never mind.

NASA Spec Miata 2012 tire decision[/quote]

That is somewhat disappointing.

I would much rather run a Hoosier, Goodyear, or Michelin rather than a Toyo. Give me something I don’t have to shave.

#14

[quote=“Ranger” post=59334]If the Hoosiers are softer than RA1s, and therefore don’t last as long, it’s hard to understand how Hoosiers could be a step forward.[/quote]Moot point, but…

Softer only means less durable if you’re talking about the same construction type. Since the Hoosiers are molded without tread, no shaving is necessary to make them fast. They are molded at 6/32, I believe. Compared to a shaved Toyo at 3 or 4/32, tire life is at least as good (in my experience).

Everyone’s focus should now be to make friends with SCCA-SM drivers who will have some decent skins left at the end of this season.

#15

softness/grip and long life are not necessarily mutually exclusive. last year i crewed for a team at the vir 13hr that fielded four miatas, two used ra1 and two used bfg r1. the ra1s lasted a little over five hours before they had to be replaced because they were nearly corded. the r1s came off after nine hours and looked barely used, they had a ton of meat still left on them. and the r1 is noticeably stickier, when i grabbed a tire that was just coming off the car a thin layer of hot gooey rubber was left on my hand, how a tire that soft lasted so long is beyond me.

#16

My past experience with R1’s on an e30 has been very satisfactory. Tons of grip and lots of life, doesn’t get greasy. Comes pre-shaved and they are fast after an initial scrub-in. I’m not happy with the RA1’s in comparison at all.

#17

[quote=“Ranger” post=59334]If the Hoosiers are softer than RA1s, and therefore don’t last as long, it’s hard to understand how Hoosiers could be a step forward. If folks are hot to change tires, lets go to a tire that is both harder and cheaper. There’s been a couple examples of cheaper and harder suggested over the past year or two.

It’s entirely reasonable that the guys on the podium are interested in the Toyo or Hoosier dollars, but most of us aren’t getting on the podium. A tire that is $20 cheaper or will last one additional weekend will save us as a group a helova lot more money than podium payouts to a few.[/quote]
Holy crap, I agree with Ranger on something! :laugh:

So serious question from someone who doesn’t know: why MUST we stick with Toyo? Why can’t we just be anarchists and pick another spec tire for our little series?

#18

[quote=“ddavidv” post=59349][quote=“Ranger” post=59334]If the Hoosiers are softer than RA1s, and therefore don’t last as long, it’s hard to understand how Hoosiers could be a step forward. If folks are hot to change tires, lets go to a tire that is both harder and cheaper. There’s been a couple examples of cheaper and harder suggested over the past year or two.

It’s entirely reasonable that the guys on the podium are interested in the Toyo or Hoosier dollars, but most of us aren’t getting on the podium. A tire that is $20 cheaper or will last one additional weekend will save us as a group a helova lot more money than podium payouts to a few.[/quote]
Holy crap, I agree with Ranger on something! :laugh:

So serious question from someone who doesn’t know: why MUST we stick with Toyo? Why can’t we just be anarchists and pick another spec tire for our little series?[/quote]
IIRC someone with inside scoop said last year that if the regional directors and Carter felt strongly that we needed to go to a different tire, NASA would not stand in their way because of the business relationship with Toyo. But the bottom line is, at least as I understand it, that NASA “owns” the series that Carter Hunt “directs”. The relationship is a cordial one and if one party feels strongly about an issue and the other not, the former will take the day. But at the end of the day “owns” beats “directs”.

The GTS series had a melt down a couple yrs ago where the director ended up at odds with NASA. GTS has a new director now.

It’s easy to talk up the merits of a new idea, but no matter how terrific the idea is a good percentage of us will hate it because the change is very hard for everyone. And no matter how terrific the idea seems at first blush, there will be unintended consequences that will be a pita.

#19

I wouldn’t mind a 140 or higher tread-wear rule. leave the brand open and the best tire will be sorted out after a few weekends and will change whenever necessary. Supposedly the star spec is good from full tread to cords and I’m sure several others are close. Star specs are 118 each. 615k are 109.

#20

Tread-wear rule sounds perfect to me up until some company comes out with a 140 wear tire that is the tits and charges $250 a tire for it.